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[育儿成长] 不说没意思的了

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 楼主| 发表于 2010-8-14 12:34:40 | 显示全部楼层
我就说了你不相信大家的经历。
你举得例子和你没有关系。可是大家举得不是例子啊。是大家家里的人 或是 ...
宝子 发表于 2010-8-14 12:21



    我很支持理性的交流与理解,大家会发现为什么越是抓的紧却总是会有问题,就要从根本上解决问题了,中国年收入8万亿,和老百姓息息相关的医疗投入却全世界倒数第四,连一些非洲国家都不如,把这种情况全归到医生身上就不对了
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-8-14 12:40:52 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 刘大夫 于 2010-8-14 12:43 编辑
没有人是带着愉悦的心情走进医院面对医生的。因为不懂因为害怕患者本身就战战兢兢,医生的责任除了诊病治病 ...
我是小马甲 发表于 2010-8-14 12:18



    在发达国家医院都有专人给病人以心理抚慰,中国还不具备这个条件,医生这方面接受的教育也很少,国家在这方面更是一点投入没有,要知道,尤其内科大夫,在那种专家门诊,有人甚至一天看几十七八十个病号(给日本医生说中国医生一天看多少多少人家都不信),如果再碰上大热天什么的,脾气不好的人很多啊,我有时开玩笑说我不会找内科大夫的,国外发达国家一般有专门制度以避免医疗资源过度集中的

还有就是平心而论一些人素质不高,医生看病就得看好,否则就是医生的错,我刚看的新闻:美国《纽约时报》8月11日的报道说,中国医院是危险的工作场所,卫生部的统计数据显示,2006年中国有5,500 多名医务工作者受到过病人及其亲属的攻击。报道说,今年6月,山东省一名医生被某患者的儿子刺死,此患者死于肝癌;福建省一名儿科医生为逃避某新生儿亲属的愤怒追击,从五楼窗口跳下后受伤。这名新生儿在他医治后死亡。
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发表于 2010-8-14 12:41:28 | 显示全部楼层
我很支持理性的交流与理解,大家会发现为什么越是抓的紧却总是会有问题,就要从根本上解决问题了 ...
刘大夫 发表于 2010-8-14 12:34



   这种时候,毛爷爷的一个思想精神很有用——先做自我批评。
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-8-14 12:41:46 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 刘大夫 于 2010-8-14 12:46 编辑

以下是纽约时报的英文原文,不信的可以看一下原文吧,看了原文,也许会明白中国医生态度不好的一个原因吧:

SHENYANG, China -- Forget the calls by many Chinese patients for more honest, better-qualified doctors. What this city's 27 public hospitals really needed, officials decided last month, was police officers.

And not just at the entrance, but as deputy administrators. The goal: to keep disgruntled patients and their relatives from attacking the doctors.

The decision was quickly reversed after Chinese health experts assailed it, arguing that the police were public servants, not doctors' personal bodyguards.

But officials in this northeastern industrial hub of nearly eight million people had a point. Chinese hospitals are dangerous places to work. In 2006, the last year the Health Ministry published statistics on hospital violence, attacks by patients or their relatives injured more than 5,500 medical workers.

''I think the police should have a permanent base here,'' said a neurosurgeon at Shengjing Hospital. ''I always feel this element of danger.''

In June alone, a doctor was stabbed to death in Shandong Province by the son of a patient who had died of liver cancer. Three doctors were severely burned in Shanxi Province when a patient set fire to a hospital office. A pediatrician in Fujian Province was also injured after leaping out a fifth-floor window to escape angry relatives of a newborn who had died under his care.

Over the past year, families of deceased patients have forced doctors to don mourning clothes as a sign of atonement for poor care, and organized protests to bar hospital entrances. Four years ago, 2,000 people rioted at a hospital after reports that a 3-year-old was refused treatment because his grandfather could not pay $82 in upfront fees. The child died.

Such episodes are to some extent standard fare in China, where protests over myriad issues have been on the rise. Officials at all levels of government are on guard against unrest that could spiral and threaten the Communist Party's power.

Doctors and nurses say the strains in the relations between them and patients' relatives are often the result of unrealistic expectations by poor families who, having traveled far and exhausted their savings on care, expect medical miracles.

But the violence also reflects much wider discontent with China's public health care system. Although the government, under Communist leadership, once offered rudimentary health care at nominal prices, it pulled back in the 1990s, leaving hospitals largely to fend for themselves in the new market economy.

By 2000, the World Health Organization ranked China's health system as one of the world's most inequitable, 188th among 191 nations. Nearly two of every five sick people went untreated. Only one in 10 had health insurance.

Over the past seven years, the state has intervened anew, with notable results. It has narrowed if not eliminated the gap in public health care spending with other developing nations of similar income levels, health experts say, pouring tens of billions of dollars into government insurance plans and hospital construction.

The World Bank estimates that more than three in four Chinese are now insured, although coverage is often basic. And far more people are getting care: the World Bank says hospital admissions in rural counties have doubled in five years.

''That is a steep, steep increase,'' said Jack Langenbrunner, human development coordinator at the World Bank's Beijing office. ''We haven't seen that in any other country.''

Still, across much of China, the quality of care remains low. Almost half the nation's doctors have no better than a high school degree, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. Many village doctors did not make it past junior high school.

Primary care is scarce, so public hospitals -- notorious for excessive fees -- are typically patients' first stop in cities, even for minor ailments. One survey estimated that a fifth of hospital patients suffer from no more than a cold or flu. Chinese health experts estimate that a third to a half of patients are hospitalized for no good reason.

Once admitted, patients are at risk of needless surgery; for instance, one of every two Chinese newborns is delivered by Caesarean sections, a rate three times higher than health experts recommend.

Patients appear to be even more likely to get useless prescriptions. Drug sales are hospitals' second biggest source of revenue, and many offer incentives that can lead doctors to overprescribe or link doctors' salaries to the money they generate from prescriptions and costly diagnostic tests. Some pharmaceutical companies offer additional under-the-table inducements for prescribing drugs, doctors and experts say.

An article in November in The Guangzhou Daily in southeastern China cited one particularly egregious example of unnecessary treatment: a patient paid roughly $95 for a checkup, several injections and a dozen different drugs, including pills for liver disease. He had a cold.

The Health Ministry has ordered hospitals to reduce prices of specific drugs 23 times in a decade, but the World Bank says hospitals have responded, in part, by ordering higher-priced alternatives.

Some experts fear that the newly opened spigot of government insurance money will inspire further excesses, rather than reduce the financial risk of illness for most Chinese. Indeed, one study shows only a slight drop in the share of household spending devoted to health care -- 8.2 percent in 2008, down from 8. 7 percent in 2003.

''Their protection may not really be improving with insurance,'' said Mr. Langenbrunner of the World Bank. ''That is the scary part.''

Doctors seem as unhappy as patients. They complain that they are underpaid, undervalued and mistrusted. One in four suffers from depression, and fewer than two of every three believe that their patients respect them, a survey by Peking University concluded in October.

In June, more than 100 doctors and nurses in Fujian Province staged their own sit-in after their hospital paid $31,000 to the family of a patient who died. The doctors were upset because after the patient died the relatives took a doctor hostage, setting off a bottle-throwing melee that injured five employees.

Like some other cities, Shenyang has been seeking ways to ward off disturbances, including setting up hospital mediation centers. Still, the city reported 152 ''severe conflicts'' between patients and doctors last year.

At Hospital No. 5, the memory of a January attack remains fresh. After a doctor referred a patient with a temperature to a fever clinic -- standard practice in China -- frustrated relatives beat the doctor and several nurses with a mop and sticks.

Now a banner strung across the hospital's main lobby exhorts: ''Everyone participate in the sorting out of the law and order problem!''

PHOTOS: The China Medical University Hospital No. 1 in Shenyang. Violence at city hospitals led officials to consider hiring police officers.; Slogans on banners at China Medical University Hospital No. 1 call for harmonious relations between doctors and patients.; A police vehicle at the hospital last month. Shenyang reported 152 ''severe conflicts'' between patients and doctors last year. ; A doctor examined an infant last month at a hospital in Shenyang. Dissatisfaction with medical care is common in the city and across China. (PHOTOGRAPHS BY DU BIN FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES) (A6)
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发表于 2010-8-14 12:42:24 | 显示全部楼层
我很支持理性的交流与理解,大家会发现为什么越是抓的紧却总是会有问题,就要从根本上解决问题了 ...
刘大夫 发表于 2010-8-14 12:34


可是有的例子说明的不是技术问题。是道德问题。
医德和医术没有关系的吧。
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-8-14 12:44:12 | 显示全部楼层
这种时候,毛爷爷的一个思想精神很有用——先做自我批评。
我是小马甲 发表于 2010-8-14 12:41



    自我批评是大家都要做,不单单是一方面
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发表于 2010-8-14 12:48:09 | 显示全部楼层
自我批评是大家都要做,不单单是一方面
刘大夫 发表于 2010-8-14 12:44



    就像之前打地那个比方,杀人放火以后站在公审台上,他说我本心是善良的,是这个社会这个体制把我逼成了坏人。然后面对大众说你们也反省你们自己吧。
你觉得这样做会有人支持他么?

你要还是站在原地看问题,那也就没什么话可说了。
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-8-14 12:48:59 | 显示全部楼层
可是有的例子说明的不是技术问题。是道德问题。
医德和医术没有关系的吧。
宝子 发表于 2010-8-14 12:42

我已经解释了很多遍了,请看以前的回复,谢谢
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发表于 2010-8-14 12:52:35 | 显示全部楼层
我已经解释了很多遍了,请看以前的回复,谢谢
刘大夫 发表于 2010-8-14 12:48


从头看过了。
所以一直不明白你的立场。
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 楼主| 发表于 2010-8-14 12:52:44 | 显示全部楼层
就像之前打地那个比方,杀人放火以后站在公审台上,他说我本心是善良的,是这个社会这个体制把我 ...
我是小马甲 发表于 2010-8-14 12:48



    我不会同情杀人犯,我想说的很多以为是杀人犯的人是被冤枉的,就像我举的例子,然后大家被这些冤枉的例子所蒙蔽,以为很多无辜的人这样会被无知阿Q的人在以后真的逼成杀人犯,这也解释过了
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